GRETCHEN MOL



Breaking The Mold

Always On Her Own Path, Gretchen Mol Adds To Her Collection Of Captivating And Complex Characters With Latest Project, Showtime's Modern Mystery, American Gigolo

PHOTOS BY DEAN ISIDRO
WORDS BY TAMARA RAPPA

Listen to the extended interview on episode 124  of the Story + Rain Talks podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.

Tamara Rappa: You have this really rich, well-balanced career as an actor. Do you see it that way?

Gretchen Mol: Depends on the day, is the answer. But if I'm really looking at it in a sort of global way, making assessments as we all do, I would say, yeah, I think a lot of it is about being content. There's balance in my life, so I can look at my career and appreciate it, and I can still want more. I can still be frustrated by certain projects, or see the journey, while in the middle of it. And it's exciting to me, to think about what can be next, because I still feel like there is lots to come. I have more to do, and more of an appreciation of what I have to offer.

TR: Have you learned over the course of some years to think big picture, think balance,  think all parts of your life?

GM: I guess that comes with maturity and age. I just turned 50, so I'm really thinking big picture in a different way than I was ten years ago or when I was first having children. You have to. And I don't think you can when you're first starting out. You couldn't, you know? You have ideas and everything, but it's a really hard thing to do. I remember being so excited at the prospect of being able to work in this business, that I wasn't always picky, in some ways. I loved to work, and I still do, but now there are other factors.

TR: You grew up in Connecticut and got into acting in high school. What do you think sparked your passion for performing? What was it that really ignited that fire?

GM: I remember that it was probably in high school when I started to identify myself as a person who loved to perform. A lot of it had to do with my peer group. I remember there was one girl, a grade ahead of me, who was super talented and had this amazing singing voice. It was junior high school, and we were all auditioning for Grease. Of course we all had the album and knew the songs, and we were all doing our auditions. She got up and sang Sandra Dee, and I was just blown away, and thought, 'I want to do that'. So maybe that was one of the earliest moments when I thought, 'This is really serious for me.' I remember finding out who her voice teacher was, and my mom started taking me to singing lessons. I started to look around at my small town for ways to get more experience. When I came to New York to study, I was still so green; people had so much more experience than me. And then it became about getting over those hurdles to feel like I, too, should be in those rooms.

TR: Your mother is an artist. Do you get your creative spirit from her?

GM: I think I do, definitely. As I started having more confidence and understanding of what acting is and having more technique, I loved having conversations with my mom about it, because it was so similar to what she was trying to achieve when she was behind the canvas. It was interesting to me that her thing was so much more introverted and quiet in a way, sometimes even lonely.

TR: Singular.

GM:  Singular. And what I was doing was so much more collaborative. Yet there were so many similarities in the creating, and in being in that state. We loved to share about that, and sort of groove on it.

"There's balance in my life, so I can look at my career and appreciate it, and I can still want more."

TR: I feel like you had your eye on the prize from day one. What happened after high school, what did you decide to do?

GM: I moved to New York City. My older brother was at NYU for film. I had auditioned at Juilliard, and it was terrible. I wasn't ready. I ended up going to a school called American Musical and Dramatic Academy. I mean, it was just to get to New York, and I was so excited to be there. I did learn a little bit, but at the time I thought I wanted to study musical theater, because in my little town, that was kind of what we did, the school plays. I loved singing and dancing, so I started studying musical theater and, I don't know, something happened there where I didn't really feel like that was going to be the way I would ultimately express myself. While my brother was at NYU, he had a job at Angelika Film Center, so I started working there and started watching all those movies, like Wild At Heart and Blue Velvet. David Lynch. The Wild At Heart opening sequence! Angelo Badalamenti, the score. I remember watching it on the screen and I felt so ignited, on fire, myself. It made such an impression. And I felt like that's what I wanted to do. My brother, studying film, had a Super 8 camera and was always making movies. All of that factored into my shift. I remember starting to do auditions and feeling so much more comfortable in that smaller space, that smaller room, one-on-one with the director, with the casting director, more intimate. I still do love theater and I still do love musicals. Now, I love it all. But at the time I felt drawn towards film.

TR: You lived the quintessential New York actor's life. Do you feel that way?

GM: Yes, very much. Working in restaurants, coat check girl, auditions, first going through Backstage, then, getting an agent, starting to get put out for things, getting some commercials. It was all very much that trajectory. I did summer stock theater. I was always studying on the side, always going to Bill Esper Studio. It was a fun time.

"We used to clear up the popcorn and [Maxwell] would be singing that Kate Bush song he eventually ended up putting out."

TR: Speaking of New York and film, you've worked with New York-rooted filmmakers Spike Lee, Woody Allen, and Abel Ferrara. Working at Angelika, the art house movie theater on New York's Houston Street, what was working there like?

GM: My brother worked there, and so did Maxwell. [Laughs]

TR: That's so funny. 

GM: Yes, to say the least. We used to clear up the popcorn and he would be singing that Kate Bush song he eventually ended up putting out. [Laughs]. It was...so cool. It's like vintage now.

"I hate to say it, because I also love that there's so much, but I personally don't know what to watch. "

TR: What were some of the other jobs that you had, to pay the bills during that time when you were pursuing acting?

GM: Aside from Angelika Film Center, there was a place called Metropolis Cafe, which was across from Coffee Shop, I worked there for a while. It was in a big old bank, and now it's Blue Water Grill. They had a jazz club downstairs and, used to have people like Elvin Jones, all these great acts, coming through. They decided that I should be the MC, which was horrifying, and I really didn't know anything about jazz, but I learned because I would have to go backstage and say, 'So I'm going to introduce you. What would you like me to say, who would you like to include?' There was no Google then. I couldn't look it up on my own. I had to confront them or their wives or their managers, and ask 'What should I say?'

TR: Do you remember the kinds of things you were doing for creative fulfillment early on in your career? Besides going on auditions, of course. What was the artist's life like for you when you were starting out?

GM: It was auditions; it was working in restaurants, or whatever my job was. Between the job and whatever the audition was, I remember taking meetings with managers, and that each thing felt like a little rung on the ladder, and then I would get a job. The Spike Lee thing, or Donnie Brasco. They were tiny parts, but I would spend a couple of weeks on them and just kind of see the world through them, more than anything. I did feel like at that time, New York City was really happening for film.  There was Miramax, the movies that were being made, like Shakespeare In Love. There was a lot. The independent scene in New York City was really ticking. Now it's television, but there were a lot of great opportunities then. I felt like I was auditioning all the time. You'd see the same people, the same actors.

TR: What's your perspective on what's happened with television?

GM: I feel like it started with The Sopranos and The Wire. I think there's still some great stuff every year. But I do feel like it's starting to get a little watered down. I hate to say it, because I also love that there's so much, but I personally don't know what to watch. If I just turn it on, I don't know what to watch. I feel like it's kind of similar to what happened with independent film. It was so exciting, and then the bubble kind of burst, and people went over here, to this thing, to the technology.  It's amazing, but I think the pendulum will maybe swing. I don't know; I don't know about the business aspect of it. I know a lot of people think it's changed forever. I would love to see more films, not all Marvel.  I'd love to see more of what we used to get to make. Why make it as an eight-episode thing, and try to pull it out? Now, we all see and know the formula. People are smarter than that. You could have actually done this in two hours. And then there are some stories that can't. Whenever business gets too much of a handle on it, and they think they have the formula, we get into that for a while before the artists kind of move onto something else. They realize, 'I can't actually make it here anymore the way I want to, or the way that I visualize.'

 "I always do feel like, terms of the longevity of any actor, if you can keep that door open to theater, you will always have an opportunity to experience great writing and do great work." 

TR: Your film debut was in Spike Lee's Girl 6. Were you thrilled? What do you recall about the energy of that set, of that crew, of Spike?

GM: I was excited because my brother was such a film-school-NYU-person, and the Angelika worker in me was like, 'Amazing!' I'd seen Jungle Fever and Do The Right Thing. It was just so cool to meet him, and then to be a phone sex operator. [Laughs]. I didn't think twice about that aspect of it, I just went for it. I was a kind of glorified background player, and it was a first part on a set like that. I remember that Spike said, 'Take it and run.' He knew it was my first job. I was like, 'Okay, I'll try... '

TR: You've been in two Woody Allen films, Celebrity and Sweet And Lowdown. When you're working with visionary filmmakers, filmmakers whose repertoires follow such a distinct message and such a distinct visual style, how does that impact you as an actress, or your task for what you bring to the table?

GM: I think you intuit it, more than anything. I love the challenge of fitting into somebody's vision and their world. That's why I love being an actor. I'm not a director.  I love the different visions. If I respect and admire their vision, I'm so excited to be there.  I feel like it is something that you just sort of feel and take on. You know? You get on a set like Woody Allen's, you realize the camera's over there, and there's not a lot of conversation about it, because it's like a play, and he wants this kind of life-like cinema verité thing. It feels sort of European and very, 'Don't ask, just, just do it.' You hear yourself taking on the intonations you've heard in all of his films, not only in the dialogue, but of his world. From the get-go, you're doing these camera tests and you can  feel the visual style and his taste. It slowly creeps into your being, and you kind of become one of those characters, one of his characters.

TR: What would you say you learned very quickly after your first few roles? What would you learn that you'd take with you, something that maybe remains with you today?

GM: One of the biggest lessons or things I learned early on,  was to make space for myself on a set. Certain people, dispositions, are really good at that. They kind of come in strong with it. As you enter a project, you kind of go, 'I'm so happy to be here.' You forget. No, I should be at this fucking table. If asked, if pressed, I always knew that, but didn't always treat myself that way.

TR: You take the time to allow yourself to feel it and be present with it.

GM: Yeah, in order for it to sink in, and almost be like some kind of a mantra. And I still believe that you have to remind yourself every day, to kind of say a little prayer or something to get you grounded within yourself. It's not so much about the work for me,  because I can do the work. It's about making the space within that environment and when I feel rushed or like I'm not being heard, not being seen. Or that I need more, and asking for it. I didn't have that in the beginning, and it wasn't like there was a turning point. I think I'm still learning it. Some days it's really there; some work environments are much more nurturing or suit you better. And that's really great. Most of it is about, how do you function in the ones that aren't?

 "Sometimes it's good to say no, because you set a boundary and you set a standard. I'm willing to let it go, and another door usually opens."

TR: The choices you've made in a long span of years of projects that you've been a part of reflect taste and sensibility. Do you remember the first time you felt trepidation about saying no to a role, but knew you had to?

GM: I do remember really distinctly, it was actually with an Abel Ferrara movie, The Funeral. I ended up being in the movie. He had a lot of great actors in the movie and I had met him, just a general meeting, and he offered me the part of a girl, and in one scene, she's raped. His movies are difficult and intense. I was so young and  thought, 'Oh my God, I want to be a part of this, but why does it have to be this?' And then something in me said, 'I don't want to do it this way. This isn't going to be worth it for me.' I don't know how to make that come off of the page in a different way. I was worried that I wouldn't even be able to be present. So I did say no. And then a week or so later, an actress fell out of a bigger part, and he called me in for it.

TR: He really believed in you.

GM: I know. Sometimes it's good to say no, because you set a boundary and you set a standard. I'm willing to let it go, and another door usually opens. I think in my case, I've noticed that it always opens.

TR: What's always a resounding 'yes' for you, when a project presents itself?

GM: It's the character and what the character gets to do. There are a lot of times when you read something and it's a great script, or there's a great actor in it, or a fantastic director. And then you think, dammit, this is a nothingburger of a role. There's no journey here. There's nothing to do. There are roles like that, they're called 'thankless', and I think I have definitely played some. And sometimes I've gotten into a thing, where I thought it would be different, and it wasn't. Or I thought, 'Oh, we can make this'.  Especially with television, you don't always know what you're getting into. It's a lot of promises. You have a script and some promises of the future. And the future never quite comes... and you talk to the creators and they'll say, 'Wait until you read this next one, the next episode.' And it never quite happens. I've had that happen and it's disappointing. Again, you just have to move on and find the next one.

"There are roles like that, they're called 'thankless', and I think I have definitely played some."

TR: Your career includes roles in, to name just a few, Boardwalk Empire, of course, for which the cast received a SAG award and was nominated multiple times, last year's False Positive, Ferrara's The Funeral, which we were just talking about, Perry Mason, The Twilight Zone, executive produced by Jordan Peele, Academy and SAG-nominated film Manchester By the Sea, 3:10 to Yuma, so many wonderful roles, The Notorious Bettie Page of course, Rounders, The Shape of Things, both film and stage, Chicago, Life On Mars, Yellowstone, many more. You are just incredible in this season's American Gigolo. Of your previous roles and projects, which do you find yourself reflecting upon the most these days?

GM: I always go to Gillian in Boardwalk Empire. One of my favorites, because I got to have five years with her, and that's so unique and rare in an actor's life. The whole experience from start to finish was just a cloud, or soaring above the clouds, really. It was everything, the support from HBO for the show, the kind of hands-off approach that they had, the trust that they had, all of the other actors who were in the show, some that I didn't even get to work with. But really it was her. She got in me, she lived in me for five years. She was tough, complex. It was such a dream role. The way I felt at the end of the show; the way it all came together; who she ended up being in the show...which I had never suspected. It was one of those situations where you show up on the second episode of the first season and don't know what the intentions are, and it just sort of builds. I felt everyone working together, I felt them feeling what I was doing, writing to what my strengths were, challenging me. It was a really beautiful dance.

TR: How do you offload a character you've played?  Do they stick with you for quite some time? Does it take a while to shake the emotional tie to a character?

GM: I think you start to realize that they're kind of within you. They are a part of you. So sometimes I'll even think about how [Gillian]  was, and I can kind of get back to her, because  I loved her. She was such a survivor, she was so scary, she was a formidable person---and that's not how I go through life. Sometimes l feel like I take a little bite of her and get her strength. It's a reminder. 'Remember that woman?' You can just fake it til you make it.

TR: Your husband Tod whom you've been married to for eighteen years is a New York-bred creator, he directed one of my favorite films, The Door in the Floor. When you first became a pair, what felt gorgeous to you? What felt like home, in terms of having this creative man as your partner?

GM: Oh my gosh, I love this question. I love this, because I did immediately feel this kind of familial thing with him, even though I was completely like so attracted to him. We had met a few times, and we were both in other relationships. And so it didn't even register to me that it could be possible. It's funny to then see someone in a different light. I remember I had gone to see The Vagina Monologues at the time, with a friend, and then we went out to Bar Pitti afterwards. And he showed up. I remember that the hairs on my arms were standing up, and I found myself trying to say smart things about The Vagina Monologues. [Laughs] And it was like, uh-oh, something's happening here. I'm feeling something. It took a while, because we were both coming out of other relationships. But we started doing a lot of group bowling nights, that kind of stuff. [Laughs]. I remember we used to go to Bowlmor Lanes a lot. Real courtship!

TR: What kinds of things excite you and Tod creatively today, as a couple?

GM: Talking about scripts and ideas, all of that, but also the creative process of raising these two kids, our number one thing. My son is doing Elf JR..

TR:  Will your children be following your footsteps?

GM: Well, I don't really know, but it's so fun. I've always wondered if anyone would care or be interested, and then all of a sudden I see a little bit of that spark, at least as a fun, social thing to do. It's so fun to me to see it, to drop them off at rehearsal. It's a kick.

TR: Their mom is dropping them off, and it's Gretchen Mol...

GM: Yeah. [laughs]  I would love to do a film that my kids could watch.

 "I would be so psyched to be in like, a Ryan Reynolds movie. I would just be the coolest person of all time to them."

TR: What would be great for you to do next? Is it a priority for you to try to do something that your children can watch right now?

GM: I mean, that would be really fun but it's ok if it doesn't happen. I would be so psyched to be in like, a Ryan Reynolds movie. I would just be the coolest person of all time to them. It would be fun, even to do a voice. I'd love to do that. But I'd rather just have a great role.

TR: Your brother is in the industry, your husband, too. Have you always been surrounded by a lot of creative people with creative energy? Is that important to you?

GM: It is. It makes more sense to me. It hasn't been on purpose, really, 'I'm going to stay in this lane'. But it is interesting. Especially with where I'm living now. You're just with everybody. And they're so amazing; it's amazing people, and I love it. I also find it funny that I do know and love so many people whom I've worked with. You have such an intimacy when you're working. In my case, it hasn't usually filtered over to life. It's  a separate world. You have your life which is like, on the soccer field or whatever, standing on the sidelines, and that's your reality. So I get so excited when I'm with a group. I just had a reading with a group of actors; Kenny Lonergan...I get so excited to be in that room, with a lot of those New York actors whom I've worked with. Here we are, again. I don't always see them in between, and it's always still a thrill to be in those rooms. I find that it's the language that I speak, and I like to be around it. But I don't have to be all the time, do you know what I mean?

TR: Are there films and series that you return to, for inspiration as an actor? Are there actors or films or things that serve as sources of inspiration for you?

GM: Yeah, and that always changes over time. Julianne Moore in The End Of The Affair; Ralph Fiennes; the both of them. I love any Todd Haynes movie, and I miss seeing them on a more regular basis. I love watching Julianne Moore, in really in anything. I love watching Cate Blanchett, because she's one that never misses an opportunity to communicate like her character. She's always going; you see it just ticking through. There's not a moment wasted in her acting. I love watching that, it inspires me, because it makes me think, 'You have to craft all along, instead of tending to let it be more organic.

TR: In building your career, how much has been organic, and how much has been proactive? How would you sum up your approach?

GM: I would sum it up to being probably more organic. I love that you're being so kind, giving me credit for building something. I think, well, it's all just kind of happened. Though it does feel like you make these decisions along the way, like the decision for me to stay in New York, to not to live in LA. That certainly has shaped the opportunities I've had. I remember thinking, this is is more right for me. It's really always been about what feels right, and how happy I'd be. I always wanted to be on this coast, it just made more sense for me. I thought, 'If I felt misplaced, would I be able to do better work?' It's actually about all of those kinds of choices that you make, when you think, 'This is where I feel strong and centered, and I want to work from this place.'

TR: What advice do you have for actors that can use some support, emotionally?

GM: Know it, know that you have done the work. You have to do the work, and keep doing the work. And know that there's no one else like you. The thing you have to offer, is totally unique to you, and that's a gift; that's the gift that you have to bring to this craft. And so, emotionally, all of the things that hurt, all of the things that make you vulnerable---that is what you have to give and to bring. I think it is about owning it and knowing it. Yes, it's normal to question and it's normal to feel like it's never going to happen. There's times when you think you're never going to work again. You do have to be able to separate those two things; the side of you that's vulnerable and also to honor it and nurture it and love it. And don't try to be too tough about it. It's your gift.

"I love watching Cate Blanchett. There's not a moment wasted in her acting. I love watching it, it inspires me, because it makes me think, 'You have to craft all along, instead of tending to let it be organic."

"I love watching Cate Blanchett. There's not a moment wasted in her acting. I love watching it, it inspires me, because it makes me think, 'You have to craft all along, instead of tending to let it be organic."

" I found her tough to be in, because I found her to be not fully realized as a person. She isn't strong. As I was playing her, because I wasn't sure where the writers were going to take her, it was really hard."

TR: What I love most about Showtime's American Gigolo, your current project now streaming, is that it's a series that, at its core, is a gritty modern mystery. Who is your character Michelle as a human being?

GM: I sort of felt sorry for Michelle. Much of her story certainly wasn't entirely told during this season. Michelle went for security, with her husband and because of how she was raised, whatever she was afraid of, she was in this relationship with someone who would always be able to take care of her, who would never threaten to leave her. She goes on to meet real love and real passion [in Julian] and she comes alive; we see that in the younger version of herself. Then, he gets set up for a murder and goes away, so she stays in her married life. She was pregnant at the time so she stayed. She made choices, difficult choices, that caused her to self-medicate. She's this person who has a lot of growing to do. At the end, we do see her make a decision to play it safe in a way, in the interest of her son. She puts other things in front of her own real desires.

TR: What's unique about Michelle compared to the other women that you've played?

GM: I found her tough to be in, because I found her to be not fully realized as a person. She isn't strong. As I was playing her, because I wasn't sure where the writers were going to take her, it was really hard. I was trying to give her a voice and give her strength; give her agency of her own life. I did feel, in the process, and I think it was part the character and part my own feeling, that there's this person inside that wants to get out. Then, at the end, she still doesn't.

TR: How was the series described to you in terms of how it would be a departure from the original, iconic 1980 film, starring Richard Gere and Lauren Hutton?

GM. That it was really about the murder mystery. I did think that it was interesting that they also decided to go into the origin story of [Jon Bernthal's]  character, to understand how this gigolo became a gigolo, the abuse he suffered, and how he's a victim. It's a very different take, not at all in keeping with the film or the feeling behind the film. As we were making it, there was this sense of, you want to see someone having fun, having sex. I think that's what the original movie did so well. This is a very different take.

TR: Your character Michelle's wig, is almost like its own character across the season. Why is Michelle choosing to wear a wig in her day-to-day life?

GM:  I will be completely honest with you about that. When we shot the pilot, I had the idea that it wasn't a wig. When I got the job, it was very clear to me that there were two different characters, there was Michelle now, and in 2006. And that was a weird era, a funny time. And so I thought, 'How am I going to understand these two different women?' When you see her now, in the present day, she's very different. I was thinking about her and I thought...this kind of frame...this kind of hairstyle...is very rigid, and I knew that that's not what my hair can do, so I said, we should have a wig. I've always loved playing with hair and making different shapes. I think it can be really transformative. This was during Covid, when I said, 'We should have a wig.' And we had a wig, but it wasn't the ultimate wig that I ended up wearing. We shot the pilot, and it didn't look very good. And David Hollander, the creator, shot a scene where I take it off.

TR: Such a powerful scene.

GM: It became, this can work. Why does this woman put a wig on? I had some ideas that I think could be explored, like the idea of hair as identity when you're having an emotional breakdown. The first thing a lot of people think about is Britney Spears. What can I change? What can be changed, when you're looking at yourself and you just want to get rid of something? She had this beautiful long hair, and I imagined her shaving it off, and being kind of comfortable. Then, getting a wig, and finding that it's sort of her armor, part of her pretending in this new version of her life. 

"As we were making it, there was this sense of, you want to see someone having fun, having sex. I think that's what the original movie did so well. This is a very different take."

 "I read it and thought, God, this is so powerful. Who is this Jamie Dack? She's onto something really powerful about how easy it is, the fine line when a young woman falls into a relationship with someone, and then it just takes a turn."

TR: Let's talk about your film, Jamie Dack's Palm Trees And Power Lines.

GM: I got the script; it was for the mom, and there are so few characters in the movie. I read it and thought, God, this is so powerful. Who is this Jamie Dack? She's onto something really powerful about how easy it is, the fine line when a young woman falls into a relationship with someone, and then it just takes a turn. And she's caught in that thing. I remember so well, when you would or you could have been, as a young woman, all of a sudden manipulated into something that you never could have imagined. I never was in that kind of a situation, really. It's the idea of being vulnerable or bored--- what I also think is a killer about it this story---the boredom of that age and then thinking, this is exciting, someone's paying attention to me, taking me out, I'm getting free food.

TR: The impact of boredom is something that I think many of us hadn't really considered, and that the pandemic has caused us to take a look at.

GM: She depicted it so well. She had done a short film that got attention at Cannes. She had the film and she had the script, and I met her, and then we were on a Zoom. It was about a few days of work, but I went out and did it. It's fun for me to sort of sit on the sidelines and watch. Jonathan Tucker and Lily McInerny, who's wonderful; I thought they did such a beautiful job. I'm happy that it's released now.

TR: We talked a little bit about what a great role would be for you in the future. Is there anything else that you're thinking about, that would be great to get back to, or that you haven't done before?

GM: Lots of things. And the nice part is, now I'm free to want it, and put it out there. I miss films. I love doing television, but I really do love films. My husband and I have something we want to do together. He's been doing most of the work on it, and for so long. I would love to do a musical again, and I would love to do more plays. I want to be in New York. I want be back in that world. Maybe it's because it was shut down for so long. And, I always do feel, in terms of the longevity of any actor, if you can keep that door open to theater, you will always have an opportunity to experience great writing and do great work. Keep your foot in theater, it's really important.