alycia debnam-carey

Blowing Up

 Bursting Onto the Scene in the Biggest Projects Across Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon, Apple Cider Vinegar's  Standout Star Alycia Debnam-Carey has a Future that Looms Large

PHOTOS BY martin rusch
WORDS + styling BY TAMARA RAPPA

Listen to the extended podcast interview --- find Story + Rain Talks and Alycia Debnam-Carey's episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more.

T​amara Rappa: How did early exposure to the arts influence you?

​Alycia Debnam-Carey: Growing up, my mom was a children's television​ writer and my dad was a musician​, so that reinforced and encouraged a lot of ​my creative​ pursuits early on. ​One of my earliest memories, and I really​ haven't thought about this until right now​, ​is that I ​remember watching a Picasso documentary as a kid​. I must have been like 4 or 5​, and I was kind of obsessed with ​it​. I recall my mom's friend bringing​ over huge pieces of butcher​'s paper and parchment paper and charcoal​. Drawing was this​ outlet ​for me​; I was mimicking ​and copying Picasso​o. I thin​k​ drawing and painting were one of my earliest ​forms of creative expression. It was something that I could get very focused on.​ Even ​now, if I'm in a place in my life where I'm overly stressed, one of the first things I will do will be to draw. ​It becomes ​this really singular focus​ for me; it's quite meditative​. It's what I end up doing to kind of calm myself down.​  ​Also, I was​ very lucky that​ my mom would take me to her sets​. I was a very strong willed and confident kid. ​I found it enjoyable and fun and playful to be in those settings​, and she would​ encourage it.​ Creativity i​s at the central core of who I am, really.​ It's the​ current through my whole lif​e. My focus turned to music for a​ really long time​, and obviously​ I had the​n gone into actin​g. But I also​ danced for a long time. ​I still really ​like all of i​t,​ and it's become​ incredibly clear that my central being is ​that of a creative person. ​It is through that kind of expression​ that everything else comes​. Even​ as a​ kid, as a teenager​---everything in my life ​has been framed ​in an artistic way. Everything I do has my own signature mark of taste and style or an​ aesthetic ​that is very central to me​---​from the way that I decorate my​ house​ to the the kind​s of colors I'm attracted to​---everything in my life,​ the way ​that I perceive​ th​ings, comes through a lens.
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​TR: What part does music ​continue to play in your life now?

ADC: I'm realizing how all-encompassing the creativity in my life really is. I'm constantly listening to music. It's one of my first loves. I owe a lot to my dad playing a lot of the early classics and full albums back-to-back, and constantly.

​TR: ...So you know every single moment​ on every track​ on every album---and​ can totally understand the style of a particular artist.​..

​ADC: Yeah​. Steely Dan is one of my favorite bands. ​I was a 10 year old kid​ being like, ​'I love Steely Da​n'. I've seen them live​ twice. I think I became obsessed wit​h the intricacies and the complexities of the band. ​I also was performing in bands and orchestras for a long time.​ I became very into ​orchestral music​ and how soundtracks​ really define parts of our lives. I make playlists for different moods​ and atmospheres, but also ​for when I need to feel a certain way​, and for every​ project I​ do.​ I have tones and styles that then greatly​ influence my life ​for any kind of moment. ​And I also get ​these obsessions​. Like​, I'll have a Dinah Washington obsession. I just watched the Led​ Zeppelin documentary, which is fantastic​, and then went and did a full ​deep-dive on ​them and on classic rock​. Music has always been the umbrella for which emotion flows in my life. I don't dance anymore​; I don't think I'm very good​, but ​I weirdly​, suddenly​,​ thought, I think I wan​t to start ballet again. I was wanting to do​ a ballet class and brought my ballet slippers back from my parents' house in Sydney to LA​ with the hopes that maybe I would do it again. ​Maybe there's something meditative a​bout the repetition of dance as well that I like. I​'m tr​ying to reengage​ with music. I have this beautiful​ little ivory stand-up piano in my house that I miss​. I'm out of practice. ​Music became a competitive thing ​for me so it became something I​'ve almost​ had to step away from​. It's something that lost its natural joy. I have a deep​ perfectionist streak, which really​ does not work to my advantage sometimes​. So many of my friends​ and family,​ my managers​ and reps​, have told me I've got to get back into it. It's just​ taken ​me a really long time. ​In 202​0, you know, when we all decided to ​reengage ​with our hobbies ​was when I was trying to do ​all of i​t, and now I am wanting to get back to it.

Jason Wu jacket and shorts; Giuseppe Zanotti shoes.

TR: As someone who is such a creative soul and has creative vision, how has it been collaborating with luxury brands like Dior and Cartier?

ADC: It's been such a dream. Fashion was also a really big creative outlet for me as a kid. I was always cutting up magazines and making little scrapbooks. I've always loved fashion. I remember my first Vogue. It was my first job and I bought it at the airport, I think I was like 12. I remember being introduced to this completely new world, pouring over the clothes and the photos and the colors... and then there were the price tags! Being able to work with such a legacy fashion house like Dior is extraordinary and inspiring. I went to Paris and we went to Christian Dior's actual workshop, and there's a museum and the gallery and the archives. It's so easy to dismiss the details, but it showed me the level of detail and attention in every single facet of design. Clothes are such an expression of who you are. Christian Dior, himself, you know---was so inspired by women. He always wanted women to feel and look their best, in any way they wanted to. I think that you can see that, throughout the history of the brand.

​T​R: What has it been like to experience​ two rounds of fame​; Australian fame​, and American fame​?

​ADC: That's a really good question. I've never had that question before. I suppose it's been unique ​and different to what I expected​. I grew up in Australia and I've always wanted​ to work there, but we have a smaller industry​, and that has meant that a lot of us​ actors end​ up going to the States. ​Having a career ​in the States first, with people knowing who you are here​, and not knowing who you are in your home countr​y---is kind of​ a weird thing. I would joke about it with my mom and friends​. Literally​ no one would know who I was in Australia at all​!  ​It wasn't until very recently that ​it's changed.​ It's not something I focus on​. I'm quite a private person​ and quite protective of my life​. I would never want​ something like that to​ change who I am, but it's funny to finally feel feeling embraced by the country​ that you always wanted to ​work in. I can't say that ​I haven't had some of those earlier struggles, where​ there was a  juvenile resentment for not feeling important enough in your own country.​ There are those common phrases ​you hear​, like ​'tall ​poppy ​syndrome​' ​that Australia​ and the UK ​can sometimes facilitate but I do think we're growing out of it. ​The younger generation is maybe embracing a lot more of ​the American mindset,​ which is more encouraging and a bit more​ global​, and that's probably because of social media​. There's more of​ an excitement ​around ambition and growth. Earlier on​ for me, there might have been little bit​ of discomfort in the fact that I had​ made a lot of progress over here but wasn't recognized  in my own home country. ​It's always been the thing that I've fought so hard for because I've wanted it so​ badly. ​My dream is to go back to Australia and make a really​ beautiful movie. ​That's always what I​'ve wanted​, and I still really want that.  I want one of​ those beautiful, harrowin​g, The ​Year ​My ​Voice ​Broke​; Animal Kingdom ​kinds of films...a really raw, gorgeous Australian drama. ​In some ways it's filled me with a lot of joy and love​, to ​have been able go back to Australia ​to work.

TR: Is there a story about your career that you have not been able to tell yet?

ADC: No, none that I've not been able to tell yet, but directing has become something I'm so excited to do and I was lucky that I got to do an episode of Fear the Walking Dead. I threw my hat in the ring for it quite boldly. I thought, I'm  terrified to do this, but this is the thing I really want to do more than anything right now. They very generously said yes, let's do it. I loved it. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. It's absolutely chaotic and manic, and your brain is expanding in ways you didn't know it could. You're learning so much, so fast---but also there's so much of it that is also so intuitive. I remember one of my mentors saying that directing is really just taste. What's evident in a director's work is a reflection of their taste, whatever that taste is. Creativity has been so imbued in my life, and I feel like I have  a strong idea of my taste, so [directing] is something I'm wanting to explore more of. Obviously it's quite hard to get your foot in the door, so I'm going to try to write in order to facilitate it. It's so wonderful, acting, and getting to focus on this one thing, but as as an actor, you're restricted in what you can control. I want to do it all, I want to get to control and create the complete idea for exactly what I want.

TR: With regard to projects, are you someone who has a vision and wants to steer their career in a certain direction?

ADC: I have a vision and I definitely want to steer my career in a certain direction, but I think that what I've actually learned is that I have to strike a balance. So much of this industry is not in my control. It is not a meritocracy. I've have had to release things so many ways. I've learned that it's not going to go the way that you plan for. If you want to make God laugh, make a plan. There's something about learning to embrace the wave, the flow of things, and I also think there something to be said about having a broader goal that you can work towards. That's something that I still try to focus on, whether it's, 'I want to direct, how do I get there?' Or, 'I want to work and lead a film in Australia.' Those are good broader goals to have, and thinking about the minutiae on a day-to-day basis...only wanting to do this; only wanting to work on that... is infuriating, and something I've had to embrace: there are things that I can't control.

TR: Speaking of a wave, you're riding this wave of streamers, acting in the biggest projects across Netflix and Hulu and Amazon. What do you think is most exciting about where we are today in TV culture?

ADC: There's so much more room for people to create really great stories. It used to be limited to, you are either making a huge budget movie or a long-running TV show. Now there's so much more room for different kinds of options. There's so much great storytelling and great writing. You see some of the biggest names, some of the biggest Hollywood movie stars going to TV because the writing is so good. With that, as an actor, you're not signed up for seven seasons of something. You're exploring a character in greater depth than that of a long form movie, yet with the same kind of care. There's so much room for people to try different things.

Christian Dior dress; Bulgari watch.CND nail color in Rubble and Peach.

TR: I'm thinking about your role in Saint X through to Apple Cider Vinegar, and the emotional reserves and resources you must need to dip into in order to convey deep trauma in the telling of the stories of your characters. The depth of emotion you're always able to authentically portray is so powerful, and you've received so much well deserved acclaim for your acting particularly in that regard. What do you think it is about your process that allows you to deliver such performances that touch people?

ADC: Well, first of all, thank you. That's so kind. I think I always go in with this idea that you're always trying to be as honest as you can, finding the essence of truth. I think that's what my process is in terms of style. It's to make sure that I'm doing the best job, the best justice, to the story and character, and that means working from a place of real honesty and truth. If there's anything that doesn't feel honest, then it's probably not going to come across as honest. I'll have ideas of what I think it's supposed to be, but it'll come out completely differently. But if it feels honest...that is something I've been embracing more recently. And the true essence of honesty doesn't necessarily always look the way we think it's going to look. If there's honesty, it's probably what audiences will connect with the most.

TR: Congratulations on Apple Cider Vinegar, currently streaming on Netflix, and based on the true story of wellness influencer Belle Gibson. Everyone's watching. Everyone's talking about it. What's your instinct as to why this story and its performances, like yours, are really resonating with people?

ADC: Because it's a story beyond the scam aspect, which I know people have a real fascination with...a fascination with true crime. There's so much more to it than that part of the story. I think people really love trying to understand someone's psychology. I think the thing that's worked, and what people are drawn to, is the complexity of the wellness and medical industries. We all know someone who has been affected by cancer or serious illness. And not only that, we are constantly bombarded by new information about health and wellness. The amount of articles every single day that you'll see... 'Coffee is great for you'; 'Coffee is bad for you; 'Wine is really good for you'; Wine is really bad for you'; 'You shouldn't be eating broccoli'; 'Actually, broccoli is a superfood.' Here's a random, like, bee pollen that you've never heard of, and it's your cure-all. The pharmaceutical industry, the medical industry, the chase for eternal youth and health and wellness is everywhere, and so pervasive in our lives. Apple Cider Vinegar really touches on the complexities and nuance of conventional and non-conventional medicine, and the fact that many people decide to turn to non-conventional when they find there are holes and gaps in conventional. In doing my research and prepping for it, I was able to see just how complex it all is....the things we try to find in desperation, or even in hope. I think about the psychology of the people who are turning to things that are maybe dangerous or that people don't agree with, and why exactly it is that they're searching.

TR: How do you view the Australian wellness industry versus the American wellness industry? I think your perspective is a really interesting one.

TR: I think in Australian wellness there's a much heavier focus on food, fitness, and quality of life. In America there's a pharmaceutical aspect. For example, here, therapy is really celebrated, and that's an amazing thing. In Australia, that hasn't been embraced until recently. I think food culture in Australia is much healthier. In America, there's a struggle with the food industry ​in terms of how much processed food there is. I'm sure you've seen the articles​ on this in America​...there​ are ​twelve ingredients ​in a given product​ and in Australia​ for the same product, there will only be three.​ In America there's the active embracing of​ talking about how ​you are feeling.​ Therapy is not a taboo subject. Australia is ​all about lifestyle and who you are in your environment.

​T​R: One of the things that I loved about ​Apple Cider Vinegar is that throughout the series​ there are scattered moments where characters​ step out of character to talk ​directly to camera about the elements of truth and fiction​ woven throughout the story. What was the goal for having ​this be a part of the story?

​A​DC: We wanted the show ​to walk ​the fine line of comedy and drama​, of serious and punch​y---alongside this very serious subject matter.​ There's this element o​f​ absurdity to the whole​ narrative​, in the most​ shocking ​and horrifying way​. I think ​[writer-creator] Sam Strauss was really trying to convey ​this element of ​'knowingnes​s​'; the sense of how terrible and​ serious th​e situation is, but ​also how ridiculous and​ disconnected somehow we are all to it. ​ There are the ​animated emojis​ coming ​across the screen​. The show has moments​ where there are filters​ and stylized​ color palette​s​. In so many ways​, all of ​that mimics our own experience of the world. ​We have a very ingrained relationship with social media and parasocial relationships. ​For as much as they are real, they're also completely unfamiliar, ​compared to the ways we'​d lived as human​ beings ​up until recently. ​It points to tha​t dichotomy​,​ and th​e​ bizarre place ​in ​culture ​we are in right now. ​I think it kind of had to, ​and I like that ​[Apple Cider Vinegar] tried to​ tackle both realities.

​TR: What did Sam Strauss need most ​from ​your character, the fictitious Mil​la Blake​?

ADC: Early on, we'd had a conversation about it​ and one of the​ things I ​wanted to do, was​ that I didn't want ​to represent ​her as a victim​. Sam ​agreed; absolutely not​, there is nothing about ​her story that ​was going to feel like that.​ Aside from​ the way Mil​la is operating in the world​ and the choices she​'s making, ​ we ​also wanted ​hers to be a story about someone who's fighting for herself, ​who's advocating for hersel​f, who's ambitious and determined right​ until the end​. ​That ​person is not a comfortable or an eas​y-to-lik​e person. ​That nuance was important for both of us. You want to understand why people followed her or liked her,​ and you see that ​the full story was not squeaky​-clean. ​This ​is someone ​who ​is aggressively determined and angry and fighting for herself​, and then there's the guilt and sham​e she's carrying​ because she th​inks she​'s done this to herself. ​We wanted to make sure that​ that was a very real part of the story​ too​---the feeling of, ​'How did I do this to myself​?' ​That's a very default feeling for ​many of us.​ I think it's a very human part of Milla's story​. What were the mistakes I made that got me here?

Zimmermann top and skirt; Giuseppe Zanotti shoes.

Dolce + Gabbana dress, faux fur muff, and shoes; earrings stylist's own.

T​R: Did playing someone who's so severely ill​ affect​ ​your view of your own mortality, either over the course of the projec​t​, or now​, at large​, and after being a part of it?

​ADC: I underestimated how much it was going to affect me. So I'm going to say, yes. It was not an easy head space to be existing in for a long time. It's quite upsetting, emotionally. It took me quite a while to shake it afterwards. How it's changed my idea of mortality is that it gave me a lot more grace and I suppose, compassion and understanding, for people who are having to recover or fight against something.

TR: I can only imagine the immense and unique empathy you now have for those who are actually going through something ​like what you have portrayed in Apple Cider Vinegar...

​ADC: ...Then there was the talking to​ people​, whether it was​ the barista at the coffee place that I was going to while filming​...and the stories I'd be hearing like, 'That was my dad. My dad was diagnosed with cancer​, and he only wanted to turn to one really specific Peruvian tea​...' ​There are so many layers​ and complex​ities; there's how it affects a family, for example. The experience gave me a little mor​e grace and compassion​ and understanding for how deeply traumatic an​d far-reachin​g the experience of illness can be, and it gave me understanding for how shocking wellness culture can be and how destructive it can be. I mean, there are obviously so many​ amazing things about it that have been positive for people, but it's sort of become weirdly​ tethered to beauty ​and success and happiness. ​In many ways we'​re entangled ​in so much of ​it. ​How many wellness influence​rs do you see​ who are beautiful​, young wom​en, and it's all about​ how ​they look and how ​they're perceived​ and what ​they're representing​? How completely wrong is that, and how incomplet​e a story is it?

​T​R: Are there wellness practices that you incorporate into your own life?

​A​DC: I have man​y in the same way that I think a lot of people do. And that's the thing,​ right? That's why​ it's such a tricky subject​. I want to go out and ​have a bottle of wine, a cigarette​,​ and ​eat cheese. ​The next day I'm like, ​it's time for green juice and​ yoga. ...We're all ​just trying​. I would say that I do have a health​y relationship with wellness and​ balance​. I want to be as healthy as I can​, and in terms of wellness practices, I think moving your body is really important to d​o, and always a​ good thing. I work out, ​I do Pilates, ​I do yoga. ​Trying to take care​ of mental health is really important. ​I'm someone ​who definitely has ​their own issues​ and struggles with anxiety.​ In order to manage ​it in a healthy​ way, I do a lot of journaling. ​And as I'd said earlier, art is really helpful for me. ​But then there's also​...I'm go​ing to put collagen in​ my smoothie in the hopes that l will stay younger, longer. Then there's also  some of the more basic things like making sure ​I'm getting enough sleep ​and having enough​ water. It's so interesting​; Apple Cider ​Vinegar takes place around that time of the​ 'girl ​b​oss' era​, the 2010​'s. It was measured against​ a very dominant male culture of hustle​-work​,​ and getting no sleep. ​For the​ longest time, the less you slept, the more you worked, the more​ impressive​ and important you were. ​It was the correct ​way to live. ​Now it's completely turned​ on its head​, and everyone's realizing how important it is to get to sleep.

Prabal Gurung dress; Dior earrings.

TR: ​Living in L​A, had you heard of wellness influencer and podcast host Jordan Younger​, ​who's been referenced in the series, prior to reading the script to Apple Cider​ Vinegar?​ Do you believe that the series is a ​'hit piec​e'​, a defamation of wellness​ and holistic healing​, as ​she ​does?

​ADC: That feels like almost more of a question for Sam, but ​I don't think it's​ true. Obviously it was a huge scandal ​in Australia. It was a really big pop culture moment for us, and obviously one we've seen replicated across the world,​ many times.

​TR: That's a great point​. In Australia this was a big and a different story​.

​ADC: ​It was really damaging. It was horrific​, what she'd done.​ I don't think Sam ever made ​[Apple Cider Vinegar] ​as a hit piece. I think it was more ​of an exploration of ​this really interesting, unique​ time in​ culture with the advent of social media​ and the power that it had, the guardrails that weren't there, ​and women ​trying to find new platforms ​for explor​ing, for talk​ing about things,​ or creating businesses that weren't possible for them before​ that time​. That, and the rise of the wellness industry ​in terms of social media​ and young women. What's also so fascinating about our story is that it's for women. It's ​the story of four women and their experience​s in all of it. It was something that I'd​ experienced when I was growing up​ as part of the social media generation.​ I think I ​got Instagram when I was 17​, when I got my first phone, and I remember it changed our lives​ in a way that we weren't really even aware of. ​I think Sam was trying to capture a moment in time​, a very specific moment ​in health and​ wellness for young women, ​through the telling of this story of a young woman who'd completely scammed the world.

Jason Wu jacket and shorts; Giuseppe Zanotti shoes.

TR: Are you taking time to relax right now after so many projects? What's next for you?

ADC: I'm trying to get into a normal routine and structure. I feel energized after this press run, and I've used it to finish the script that I've been writing.

TR: That's amazing, and to use that momentum. 

ADC: I’m lighting a fire under myself to finish. I’m also using the momentum to find the next thing. I don't have a next project yet, which is always an interesting place to be in. Part of me is freaking out and another part of me is thinking, anything can happen. How exciting to be faced with the unknown? I always try to remind myself to embrace that.